the ban thread i guess

grud · Post by **grud** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:06 am

Per the rules as written, the medical supply list has named blood bags as shared equipment since the 2013 revision, and I'd argue today's run only proves why we wrote it down. I was there when the blood bag ran out in that field, and the problem wasn't the missing bag, it was that six of us stood around discussing options while pete lay tehre. That's the precedent. If you log out carrying a blood bag, that's functionally the same as deleting it from the group pool, and nobody has ever claimed that's acceptable. The AS50 forty seconds thing is a different conversation but the principle is the same: gear that never gets seen might as well not exist. Nobody is saying drop everything mid-firefight, but per the rules as written the group-first rule for consumables is already in the charter and has been since October. Two restarts in a row with no admin ruling on it just leaves us in the same grey area. Anyway, that's where I land on it.

MK · Post by MK » Sat Apr 12, 2014 2:52 pm

The charter says shared equipment, but it doesn't tell me how to enforce it retroactively. The blood bag that ran out was a medical failure, not a rule failure. Logged-off inventories have been a grey area since 2012, and one group run doesn't settle it. If this is a ban request, name the player and the server time; otherwise I'm not going to rule on a hypothetical.

grud · Post by **grud** » Sat Apr 12, 2014 3:04 pm

Not a ban request, MK. Nobody's asking for a name. I'm asking for the grey area to get closed, and the only way that happens is a ruling on whta a logged-off bag counts as. The field thing being a medical failure is exactly why the October revision exists — we watched it happen, and the consumables section got written so the next time nobody has to stand around asking whose bag it is. Nobody's asking to punish anybody from that field. I went back and read the October post again tonight — 'shared equipment' is all it says, no consequence, no mention of what happens when the bag goes offline with a character. Logged-off inventories have been a grey area since 2012, which means the grey area is older than the rule, and the rule didn't actually address it. The AS50 forty seconds thing is the same principle — gear that never gets seen might as well not exist — just nobody to blame for it. All I want is a sentence that says a bag on a logged-off character is still a group resource, or says it isn't. Either answer is better than standing in another field having the same argument.

Post by **sniper** » Sun Apr 13, 2014 1:39 pm

was on earlier. the bus with no windscreen was useless and everyone loved it. logged-off bag's the same until someone's bleeding.

Post by **Lithh** » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:41 am

The grey area's been there since 2012, so I dont think another week of it kills us. we talked about this after the field and the October revision caem out of that — the rule exists, it just doesn't cover offline characters. The AS50 thing gets brought up whenever this comes around, but that one's got nobody to blame, so I'm not sure it helps us write a better sentence. i'd rather wait until an actual logged-off bag costs us a life before we bolt something onto the charter.

Post by **sniper** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:13 pm

lithh, you're right — can't write a rule for a bag nobody's bled out over yet. when it happens we'll get the sentence written in an hour.

mox · Post by **mox** » Tue Apr 15, 2014 4:45 pm

sniper, I keep coming back to the crossroads man while reading this. We spent weeks waiting on him to mean something, and in the end what he meant was that he just showed up. The rule about the bag is the same. If we write it after a death, it's a post-mortem, not a rule. The October revision came from that field, and it didn't finish the job because it doesn't cover offline characters. Nobody wants to be the one to say a logged-off bag counts, so we call it a grey area and feel better about it. I do'nt think another week changes that. Write the sentence now and we won't have to stand in that field again.

MK · Post by MK » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:53 pm

Mox, the AS50 forty seconds gets brought up the same way and it never actually made anyone change how they carry gear. The October revision came from a field we all watched; a logged-off bag is something we've only theorised about. I won't put a sentence in the charter to settle a hypothetical, and I won't call it a grey area to make it easier. If you want it written before someone bleeds out, bring me a server time where it actually happened.